CINDY PITMAN — Direct by Mr. Greer , 4/22/04
Volume 15, page 689
being arrested or the material witness warrant, in courtroom, you said something about being upset that Ms. Frye, the female got a deal, and you were upset because she was the one that threw the rock. Do you remember saying that?
A: Yes, yes.
Q: Had you told the defense attorneys that before that day?
A: Those two, yes.
Q: When you did that, when you told them that, did they show you any reports or talk to you about
A: (Speaker shakes head negatively.)
Q: Did they show you Ms. Frye’s statements or anybody e1se’s paperwork?
Q: They didn’t?
A: Not until after.
Q: After what?
A: No. They didn’t show us no —— what do you call it —
Q: Did they tell you what Ms. Frye had said?
A: No. They never told us what Ms. Frye —— they told us she was getting a deal.
Q: They didn’t show you her statement or anything?
A: No. They didn’t show us.
Q: Did they show you your statement?
Volume 15, page 690
Q. Did they show you your handwritten statement?
A. Yeah. We reread our handwritten statements.
Q. were you interviewed at the same time as Mr. Hawkins? were you both together?
A. No, we weren’t.
Q. You were separate?
A. We were separate.
Q. And you gave a tape—recorded statement?
Q. I want to get back to the question I asked before, which is today, are you asking that somebody from the defense attorney’s office be present when we talk to you?
A. No, because my story is not going to change.
Q. Okay. Are you concerned that anybody from the State, prosecutors, or law enforcement is trying to pressure you to say something that’s not true?
A. Yes, I am, in a way.
Q. Why do you feel pressured?
A. Because I know there is one guy that’s going to trial, and there’s some doubt in my mind that he may have had the same involvement.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Because I seen three people around the body.
Q. Mm—hm. (Replies affirmatively.)
A. The fourth person, I couldn’t tell you. I mean, there
Volume 15, page 691
was a fourth person there, but I couldn’t tell you what their involvement was. I don’t want something to happen to somebody that didn’t do nothing. At the same time, I don’t think that the people that I know what they did —— I think they’re getting off lightly.
Q: Okay. Now, are you —
A: That was my friend.
Q: Dispute —— apparently you believe we’re going to try to get you to change that story. Is that what you’re saying?
A: I don’t know if you’re going to get me to change, just maybe twist words around. You can’t deny he’s there.
Q: So what can we do to make it easier for you?
A: I don’t know.
Q: Do you understand we have to prepare for this case?
MR. BAUER: Let the record reflect Ms. Pitman_is crying now. She’s been up at the hospital all night long.
THE COURT: Have a seat. The record will reflect she’s crying. Q\MR. GREER: Ms. Pitman, are you okay to answer a few more questions?
THE WITNESS: (Speaker nods head affirmatively )
Q: (By Mr. Greer) Is there anything we can do to make it so you think the process is fair?
A. No. I guess you just have to do your job.
Q: Okay. I want to make sure you believe and you don’t
CINDY PITMAN — Direct by Mr. Greer, May 7, 2004
Volume 22, page 1080
that kind of went overhead. But I wasn’t trying really to look, look. I just looked down there and noticed it was Skinheads.
Q. So all three of these people had skin heads, shaved heads?
A. You know, it’s been so long and then I’ve had nightmares. At first I placed the three guys down there. And then it seems like I have reoccurring dreams that places the female down there. It’s been hard on me. Randy was my friend.
Q. Ms. Pitman, understanding that, when I question you here this morning, you need to be real clear about what you actually remember and what you don’t.
A. I seen three images under the bridge and four people come out.
Q. To be fair, you can’t distinguish male/female —-
Q. ~— of the first three you saw, correct?
A. No. Not until they came out under the bridge.
Q. Do you believe your memory today is better or worse than it was back at the time?
A. I believe my memory is better now because that night, it was hard to believe I had watchcd what had happened and didn’t try to help. And then I’ve had reoccurring nightmares over and over again. I wish that night that I would have did
Volume 22, page 1081
Q. When you have the reoccurring nightmares, are you actually seeing what happened?
Q. Is it different things that you’re seeing?
A. No. I see two men It’s the same thing over and over. I see two men on both sides of the body and the female standing in front of him and bashing him in the head with a rock.
Q. After the incident, did you come to discover through the media what was reported about the incident?
A. No. I didn’t keep up with the media.
Q. Did you ever come to understand a rock was involved in the incident?
A. No, not until I mentioned it.
Q. When did you mention it for the first time?
A. when I talked to them, Jay and them.
Q. The defense attorneys? ?
A. Right. And then you showed me a picture of the rock or Ringer did.
Q. After you talked with them?
Q. Where were you when you talked to the defense attorneys?
A. At their office.
Q. About how long ago was that?
CINDY PITMAN — Continuing Direct by Mr. Greer , 5/10/04
Volume 23, page 1157
Q. Okay. When you were meeting with them those three or four times, did they show you pictures of the people that had been arrested in this case?
A. No. They just basically showed pictures, but not of the people.
Q. Not of the people?
A. Not of the people specifically. They kind of had us pick out —
Q. Didn’t they show you only four pictures?
A. No. I thought it was more pictures than that.
Q. Did they show you that picture right there?
A. I don’t recall.
Q. Ms. Pitman, going back to your testimony on Friday, as I recall, you said that when you first heard the commotion, you came down and you saw three males kicking at the dirt?
A. ‘Mm—hm. (Replies affirmatively.)
Q. And after that, you walked around, and you saw the female when you crossed paths with them. Is that correct?
Q. Did you ever see the female before that point in time?
Q. In your tape—recorded interview with defense attorneys I did you tell them that you saw the female lift up a large rock and throw it on the Victim?
A. Yeah, I did. Like I said, that’s —— that night that
Volume 23, page 1158
this happened , it was pretty awful to find what we found. The first vision is what I stuck to. And then later on things might have been becoming more clear or confusing. I have a lot of medical problems and then —
Q. Ms. Pitman, during that interview, were you told that there was a rock involved in this case?
Q. You did not read about it in the paper, correct?
Q. You never mentioned a rock in your statement to Officer Mueller or your tape-recorded statement afterward?
Q. You never talked to law enforcement for a year?
A. Mm-hm. (Replies affirmatively)
Q. And then the interview with defese, you recall telling them there was a rock involved, bvut there really wasn’t?
A. Well, like I said, in my nightmares and treatment, yes, I keep seeing a rock.
Do you recall in your tape-recorded statement with defense attorneys that you recall seeing two males and a female beating the victim? Is that true?
A. Yes. That’s what I believed I saw.
Q. Believed you saw?
Volume 23, page 1159
Q. That’s different from what you said to law enforcement just after the incident?
Q. Pardon me. And what you’ve said here this morning was, the first time you saw the female was when you passed her?
A. Mm—hm. (Replies affirmatively.)
Q. So is it true or not true —
MR. BAUER: Your Honor, I’ll object to the compound question, and he’s leading this witness.
THE COURT: With regard to the compound question, that’s overruled. I’m going to allow him to ask some leading questions of this witness.
Q. (By Mr. Greer) Is it true or untrue, as you tell the jury the truth about this incident, that the first time you saw the female was when you walked past her on that pathway?
A. In the very beginning, yes.
Q. Is that true?
Q. So if you said that in a tape—recorded statement with defense that you saw a female and a male kicking the victim, that would not be true?
A. See, that’s what I keep saying. I don’t know after time has gone by, things became clearer in my mind because, like I said, that night I was pretty shook up. I at the same time, too, it was hard for me to believe a female would do
Volume 23, page 1160
something like that. So then after a while, I don’t know whether or not it started becoming clearer to me or if my nightmares got confused with the reality.
Q. All right. Do you have a clear recollection today as you sit here on the stand?
A. No, I don’t.
Q. Have you told —— in interviews since talking to the defense attorneys, have you met with the prosecution?
Q. Have you talked extensively about the difference between your two statements?
A. Yeah. I talked to you about them, getting confused with the nightmares and the realities, yes.
Q. Is it true you said in the past that the only thing you truly know is you passed four people walking down the path?
A. That’s true.
Q. Everything else you can’t even say you saw?
Q. Is that true?
Q. Ms. Pitman, you indicated that the only person you believe you identified was the female. I want to hand you what’s been marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 84. Now, if you’ll look at that exhibit, can you tell us, does the first page have the information that you talked about?
Volume 23, page 1170
A: (Speaker nods head affirmatively.)
Q: And that after you went to the bathroom, after that 5 minutes, you came out and watched some more for about another minute, true?
A: (Speaker nods head affirmatively.)
Q: And then when they showed you photographs, they asked you the question, “Were you able to identify them?” You said you were able to identify them quite well, correct?
A: (Speaker nods head affirmatively.)
Q. Is that yes?
Q: You said to these attorneys you were able to identify the female for sure and the one they call “Temper,” true?
Q: It wasn’t until they came face to face with you that you were able to recognize that the fourth individual was not participating, correct?
Q: And then you told these attorneys when they showed you a photograph that this fourth individual that was not participating was Mr. Monschke?
A: Yes. He was the last one I seen come out from under the bridge.
Q: Right. But you also told them that you watched the incident for 5 or 6 minutes, and you never saw Mr. Monschke
Volume 23, page 1171
A. (Speaker shakes head negatively.)
Q. You recognize the picture that they showed you as Mr. Monschke, correct?
Q. You told them that you saw the female pick up a rock and throw it down on the victim?
A. (Speaker nods head affirmatively.)
Q. You told them you knew that happened and you actually heard it hit, heard it smash, what you thought was the track?
Q. You also told them you watched the female kick the victim at least four or five times, correct?
Q. Ms. Pitman, why is it that you would not tell them the truth?
A. Like I said, to me, I didn’t feel like I wasn’t telling the truth. It was what I started remembering over the year, whether it was dream or nightmares or whether it was the truth straightening out, to me at the time I was telling them the truth of what I remember. But it’s been a year, like I said, I’ve had a lot of medical problems. I’ve had seizures.
Q. In that year, before you talked to defense attorneys, were you living with Mr. Hawkins?